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quake.ie main news The ugly side of Quake 4
 30/10/2005 21:26  The ugly side of Quake 411049 views | 10 replies 
melachi
Nasty fucker




posts : 257
administrator


After extensive playing with some of the best players the horrible imbalances and imperfections of q4 have shown themselves. Theres nothing which cant be fixed but;
if you want to win easily just whore shotgun. On most maps I can just run around with shotgun chase people down as they try to rail me. Youll have higher hit probability, the spread is very low and so for probability to hit and damage output per second the sg is much better than rl, lg and rail close to mid range. Rail was a bit of a mess at first because I found it so easy to hit. I could dispatch of someone whos won eswc and qlan2, coming at me with LG 200/200 when I had 50 armour and a railgun. Then as an experiment he started using SG only, whereas I only used the LG, RAIL and RL. If I was lucky I could hit two rails in the time that he managed to kill me, most of the time id only manage to scrape some damage off. Hed run away with 15 frags just using sg. So for the last 5 it was switched around, I used SG vs RAIL/LG/RL and not to my surprise I was going on a fragging run, this was on bliptourney1...
To further test this I went onto a pub tourney server, one was playing the "rail map" fragginyard1v1 (which is something like q3tourney3 in q3). Now everyone is basically trying to get the rail. I tried my tactics of using rail as secondary weapon here, trying to approach players short-mid range, lo and behold i crushed everyone on the server despite there being some handy railers there, its nothing when I have higher damage output % even at mid range. Again, I repeated this on the dark FLEET map.
The fact right now is that I would never use LG over SG, in any situation. I would use SG over 75% of the time and cruise through matches against players using rail/rl/lg combo using my sg and potshot-rail...

Sooner or later people will figure this out, if you havent already you know now. Basically, the rail needs to be nerfed and the sg needs to be nerfed. I dont think its supposed to be a weapon more powerful than the LG in a midrange fight. Sometimes it feels as if Im playing CS, because one railhit or one clean distant sg hit will comletely turn the game around...

I believe that Q4 can be a good game and there are only some simple changes to be made on damage output. The problem is that the general scene is so slow to discover this as theyre, well, shit. So theres this recurring moaning on forums "dont change anything!!!"..
At first I thought the rail was the only overpowered weapon, as I applied a lot of HITNRUN tactics with it. Where Hit and run means that I hit my opponent whos got maplock and make him run! Now I dont even need rail to break maplock, I can just stand behind a pillar and wait with my sg...

Im not saying Q4 should have the same weapon balances as q3 or be the same. I just dont think that SG should be a BFG here. It destroys the gameplay by far.
I can see the scene eventually waking up and smelling the cheese, I know some people are aware of these problems. The thing is to get everyone else to accept this and have a mod which will make changes for the better that will be accepted by the major tournaments and the general scene. With CPL Winter only 1.5 months away I dont really have much belief that things will change before then. If only people would think and act faster. Im not the only one who will be pulling out of the tournament if the game is played as is. Theres hardly any value in practise and skill when you can TAKE THE SG, WIN THE GAME! Thats just the first hurdle, then we have the railwhoring...
Right now Im not happy playing q4, if I play against someone who doesnt know about Sg 1st Rail2nd I just ravage him, if I play against someone whos got a decent aim and does know about sg youll be going frag for frag and maybe win a very close game on map movement.

another thing ive noticed is that I dont feel any difference between 30 and 60 ping which may be a good thing..
 
edited by melachi on 30/10/2005 21:26 

30/10/2005 21:04#1
Illkillya
James Galvin


Entering a world of pain
clan : fish heads

posts : 892
site administrator
ive donated to quake.ie!


Interesting... cant say I noticed this because I suck at ssg and always have, but Vin did mention that he was using shotgun as primary, because ssg switches to other weapons faster too or something?
 
 

30/10/2005 21:11#2
melachi
Nasty fucker




posts : 257
administrator


You dont need to switch to other weapons, start with sg finish with sg. Using sg on people stresses them out as well and effects their aim.

 
 

30/10/2005 21:43#3
Searrard
GerW


who?

posts : 35


In Q3CTF if I grabbed a sg Id be looking for another weapon... in Q4CTF I find I dont need another weapon and make a run for the enemy flag, its quite lethal...

well, given the damage it does, can players develope a decent strategy to maps where a game can be enjoyable...?
While things have changed, new weapons added, it should change the tactics and style... Why not have a sg + rg combo style of play in q4?

I think the majority of people shouting "dont change anything!" are people wanting to see what happens with q4 rather than a fine tune based on current DM likes & dislikes, the only way I think well see major changes in gameplay for Q4 if CPL Winter churns out the same predictable match over and over again...


 
 

30/10/2005 21:52#4
melachi
Nasty fucker




posts : 257
administrator


Shouldnt be A RAIL+sg combo game simply because there isnt much skilldepth in it. You can just aggro without thinking, or snipe rail without thinking. WIth the slow rockets rl demands a lot of predict aim and dodge skills which is welcomed, this is however all made useless when someone just shotguns your ass.
I dont care about q4ctf though, Im talking about Duelling here but this should have effect on tdm as well though.

Its quite evident to me that sg is overpowered and they didnt intend for it to be a main aggro weapon.

"Why not have a sg + rg combo style of play in q4?"
Blindly making comments like that prohibit the competitive development of this game... what ive said might not be all too clear if you havent played against really great players and a q4ctf match wont really give you much information.
 
edited by melachi on 30/10/2005 21:58 

30/10/2005 22:10#5
Vinnit
eamo


.
clan : fish heads

posts : 164


I havent used sg that much because out of all the weapons on isdn sg gets affected the worst by far (q3 inc) and its actually hard to land shots with it.

Quad sg is pretty fucking funny tho you completey oblierate people in one shot at mid range.
 
 

31/10/2005 03:08#6
OverLord
Dave Woodlock



clan : n8z

posts : 191
administrator


having a awful time with sg myself. will try again now though.
 
 

31/10/2005 14:07#7
MindPhuck
Eric Mooney


Im drinking stuff donated to quake.ie
clan : n8z

posts : 1267
site owner


great post mel. will reply properly later with some questioons.
 
 

31/10/2005 16:21#8
quetzal
Ownerer.




posts : 80


I havent really got a chance to try it out in duels yet, but in tdm so far my main weapon has been sg, and on any quadrun sg owns for me, due to rockets being too slow, lg having fakeshaft, and me being shit with rg.

This is probably the wrong place to ask, but has anyone else (mel?) noticed that the rl simply doesnt fire sometimes? Could be just pl or something, so Im interested in seeing if anyones experienced it over LAN etc...
 
 

31/10/2005 16:44#9
Searrard
GerW


who?

posts : 35


imbalance, nerf, aggro...

omg The World of Shottycraft!

BLUE PLZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
 
 

01/11/2005 12:56#10
Zero
Ronan Condon


Absolute Fucking Champion
clan : n8z

posts : 816
site administrator


first point release will surely fix that if its as evident a problem as you say. if not, we will just have to make ssg our primary heh.
 
 
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