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quake.ie columns barrysworld peering + bwq3l
 14/04/2002   barrysworld peering + bwq3l888 views | 20 replies 
Illkillya
James Galvin


Entering a world of pain
clan : fish heads

posts : 892
site administrator
ive donated to quake.ie!


i might as well complete the trio of moans concerning disastrous league games and unplayable connections. i was delighted last week by the announcement and quake.ie news update that barrysworld peering with eircom was fixed. unfortunately, its worthless to us since connections in league games are as bad as ever.



tonight i was on indigo isp dialling the dublin number because that always gives good ping to uk. its the same as eircom, the tracert to sam.barrysworld.com is below. and also, i was on 64k but dest was on 128k eircom, so his ping in the screenshot shows how much difference that makes.



tracing route to bwserver32.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.4]



over a maximum of 30 hops:







  1    33 ms    32 ms    34 ms  ts06.dublin.indigo.ie [194.125.145.104] 



  2    32 ms    32 ms    32 ms  fe1-0.tr1.cra.dublin.eircom.net [194.125.145.107] 



  3    55 ms    37 ms    33 ms  fa0-0-0.core1.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.191.65] 



  4    48 ms    48 ms    49 ms  pos0-0-0.core1.thn.london.eircom.net [159.134.191.98] 



  5   209 ms   298 ms   279 ms  195.66.224.162 



  6    50 ms    50 ms    50 ms  213.221.179.115 



  7    56 ms    56 ms    58 ms  bwserver32.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.4] 







trace complete.


ping is ok.. could have been a lot more stable if i reconnected, i was getting 45 solid earlier. but peering or no peering, it all ends up the exact same in game. below is a screenshot of our game vs b&k tonight... the 3rd place clan in our group. this is 18 seconds into the first game, which we ended up winning somehow, even though connections remained consistently bad for the duration of the game.

guess who the defenders are, 2 lone isdn defenders whos ping will turn orange as soon as b&k launch their first attack. we play with 3 attackers, you should be able to spot them also. in q3, we'd probably be better off without the peering, with 100 ping standing still, so that when the other team attacks and our ping rises to 150, it will only be a ping rise of 50% as opposed to 200%. btw, don't take this the wrong way - i appreciate all the efforts bigfoot and bw have been making to accommodate irish gamers, its not your fault that this happens, and the peering i'm sure is very valuable to people who play other games.




 
 

14/04/2002#1
M1ke
Michael Breen




posts : 288


me and simo had stable connections tonight, no problems at all really.

although these days you never know :/ maybe the physical barrysworld servers were bogged down with players or short on resources ?
 
 

14/04/2002#2
Illkillya
James Galvin


Entering a world of pain
clan : fish heads

posts : 892
site administrator
ive donated to quake.ie!


this happens EVERY WEEK I just thought I'd upload screenshot and stuff for all the people who don't understand what its like and see our standingstillalone ping and think thats what its like.
 
 

15/04/2002#3
koopa
a




posts : 88


its the same in qw as well, the first time eircom peered with barrysworld, it rocked - 42 ping all the time on barrysworld in qw, very stable

but now somethings fucked, i dont think its the peerings fault, in traceroutes with all isp's that i could try, there was a 15-20ms increase in ping in a single hop between dublin and london, this used to be about 5ms previously i think

you can see this on your traceroute as well,

3 55 ms 37 ms 33 ms fa0-0-0.core1.cra.dublin.eircom.net

4 48 ms 48 ms 49 ms pos0-0-0.core1.thn.london.eircom.net

thats about a 15 ms difference, 'pos0-0-0.core1.thn.london.eircom.net' seems to be the unstable point
 
 

15/04/2002#4
koopa
a




posts : 88


heres a traceroute i just did using eircom to barrysworld

Tracing route to bwserver10.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.193]

1 33 ms 32 ms 41 ms as1.exs.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.238.26]

2 31 ms 31 ms 32 ms fe1-0.tr1.exs.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.238.65]

3 32 ms 33 ms 31 ms fe6-1-0.core1.exs.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.236.1]

4 32 ms 32 ms 31 ms atm4-1-0-134.core1.cra.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.192.9]

5 48 ms 49 ms 49 ms pos0-0-0.core1.thn.london.eircom.net [159.134.191.98]

6 49 ms 49 ms 48 ms 195.66.224.162

7 49 ms 49 ms 49 ms 213.221.179.115

8 53 ms 53 ms 55 ms bwserver10.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.193]

Trace complete.


 
 

15/04/2002#5
koopa
a




posts : 88


that 17ms increase between hops 4 and 5 used to be under 5ms, from what i can remember, 6 months ago, from dublin to london
 
 

15/04/2002#6
dyna`
colm mc menamin


GunZ!!!

posts : 49


eircom subscription first:
Tracing route to bwserver32.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 39 ms 33 ms 34 ms eth.as1.lifford1.eircom.net [159.134.248.186]
2 33 ms 40 ms 41 ms eth.gw1.lifford1.eircom.net [159.134.248.185]
3 72 ms 69 ms 69 ms lifford1.border1.adl.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.
238.133]
4 81 ms 68 ms 87 ms fa1-1-0.core2.adl.dublin.eircom.net [159.134.240
.12]
5 73 ms 87 ms 96 ms pos1-0-0.core1.the.london.eircom.net [159.134.19
1.102]
6 73 ms 78 ms 78 ms pos6-0-0.core1.thn.london.eircom.net [159.134.19
1.13]
7 73 ms 78 ms 78 ms 195.66.224.162
8 71 ms 87 ms 97 ms 213.221.179.115
9 74 ms 78 ms 78 ms bwserver32.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.4]

Trace complete.


OCeanfree:
Tracing route to bwserver32.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.4]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 40 ms 24 ms 22 ms 212.2.162.74
2 35 ms 31 ms 30 ms 212.2.162.65
3 35 ms 31 ms 31 ms 212.2.162.198
4 36 ms 31 ms 31 ms vlan11.rt001.bmt.esat.net [193.120.57.113]
5 35 ms 31 ms 31 ms ge1-0.core002.bmt.esat.net [193.95.140.2]
6 25 ms 31 ms 31 ms pos5-2.core002.cwt.esat-x.com [193.95.131.21]
7 53 ms 50 ms 50 ms pos10-0-0.br001.ldn.esat.net [193.95.131.18]
8 55 ms 50 ms 50 ms 195.66.224.162
9 54 ms 50 ms 49 ms 213.221.179.115
10 51 ms 50 ms 59 ms bwserver32.barrysworld.com [213.221.174.4]



So which is best?

 
 

15/04/2002#7
M1ke
Michael Breen




posts : 288


that's a tough one dyna, you're dialling into a bogger pop number. Lifford is Donegal i think ?

I couldn't tell you which is better... but I can tell you that the Dublin eircom subscription pop number is better. Eircom and indigos regional pops are usually always shyte.
 
 

15/04/2002#8
saik
mr.nobody




posts : 242


killy doing 44 fps there. now i know i dont have isdn etc and i don't understand it totally. BUT. since everyone started using sams config their fps went to shite. do isdn modems place a big strain on the cpu? vin gets solid 125 on his box afaik. as does mike. lorc koopa(koopas SHOULDNT be all dodgy, but it was last time i saw it) dest and killy all have 76 fps puters. so i think that therer *may* be a link between shite cpus and big dirty irish lag. course i could be totally wrong, and it wouldnt be the first time.
 
 

15/04/2002#9
M1ke
Michael Breen




posts : 288


whenever i lag badly my fps drop, even since i got this new beast of a pc. Carmack says there's no link between fps and net in this but ....... sam has a dodgy pc tho its only like 600mhz or something with a gf1.
 
 

15/04/2002#10
Illkillya
James Galvin


Entering a world of pain
clan : fish heads

posts : 892
site administrator
ive donated to quake.ie!


this problem has always existed, no matter what config we have been using. lower fps = more lag, in fights you get lower fps, hence, more lag in fights (although not that that extent I'd say).

Carmack says there no link between fps and net? Well Koopa told me a lot last night about the link between FPS and maxpackets and LAG, and tbh I'd believe Koopa before I believe Carmack

But if this was the case, why does this only happen to that extent on Barrysworld servers? My ping never goes orange on Jolt.
 
 

16/04/2002#11
saik
mr.nobody




posts : 242


koopas is a celly oc @ 850 mhz + gf ddr that "should" piss all over q3, and even with the 600mhz performance he says he gets out of it, it shouldnt drop below 60 fps. ah well..

ANYWAY i reckon the fps drop is to do with how busy the machine is - firing off and receiving missed/dropped/bad packets/whatever. if it can only give 44 fps or the likes, it's obviously very busy with the isdn TA. i've heard of issues *like* this over in england with adsl modems - big fps drops in fights. now i know it isn't an apples and apples comparison, but the solution was to put the adsl modems onto another computer. someone could try to put the isdn ta on a spare computer and play through that, just to see what happens, you never know.

also, i don't think its specifically frames per second here that is the problem - carmac would find it hard to argue that a CPU under full load is gonna give as good internet performance as an unstrained one. i *think* it's how busy the machine is overall. i.e. busy machine = more lag in fights. in a fight, your machine is busier, hence more lag in fights. there is obviously a link between a busy machines and lag. it's why winmodems suck etc.

perhaps the reason you only get these problems on barrysworld is that the machines are awfully busy (on league night?) and having fierce trouble getting all the packets out to killy bai's computer in cairk. hence far more missed bad lost packets etc.

it's all idle hearsay and conjecture.....
 
 

16/04/2002#12
Vinnit
eamo


.
clan : fish heads

posts : 164


was talking to sam and he said it's not the isdn TA causing fps drops, it's hardware based so it's not hoggin cpu, only a bit for the TA drivers. He says it's the extra processing going into predicting shit on the internet. This is why fps drop doesn't happen on lan. However we'll all wait for his typical highly tech explanation
 
 

04/05/2002#13
saik
mr.nobody




posts : 242


in recent news, FH had bloody great pings versus weed. it has been postulated that this was because this was on early thursday? a night when the servers weren't as busy with the league, only playing postponements etc.
 
 

19/04/2002#14
gerry
Philip Brennan




posts : 57


I've an eicon diva pro ta here, and it offloads most of the work from the cpu, using dsp's on the card. Its termed as an active ta instead of the usual passive.
A passive ta like the asus isdnlink will still rely on the cpu for some stuff, what I'm not exactly sure, but the cpu has to do some of the lower layer stuff for the ta, not just hand it a packet. *
However I get lagged just as badly as most people in q3, I think the cpu is being hogged by q3 as saik says, and not by the ta.

I've often attributed lag to busy servers, but I think its more the network infrastructure. Certain routers between here and bw just can't handle quake connections, I think thats what it comes down to. If the servers were busy, then people who connected directly to the server ( on the same lan or something) would get packet loss as well, and although this hasn't been tested out, I think you would find that the client 1 hop away would have no packet loss.

* could be utterly wrong of course
 
 
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